WWI Guards Division Forum

Have a weird question...don't know if there's anyone out there that's interested in this sort of thing but is there anyone that's interested on the military band aspect of the guards out there in the reenact specifics?

Let me know...would like to discuss

Cheers

Yes i am very interested in fact Lt. Higginbottom and i had talked about this a lil bit last week. I think it would be great to start a band of some sort to play at events. I think it would add a lot to the atmosphere.

Cheers!
Bomber Macgregor

At the very least, a bulger or a drummer would be nice. But would they have played at the front?

well im really not sure but even still at the camp we are technically, as far as I we are a garrison, And I would think that they could have been in camps at the rear. There is a passage in the Sidney rogerson book, 12 Days on the Somme where he describes a band putting on a performance for the whole camp. What he describes is a regimental band playing for the troops of their regiment as well as all of the other regiments in the camp so on Friday this would not be such an unauthentic thing or even perhaps on Saturday night stuff like this was not uncommon in fact, if my memory serves me, there is a chapter on such things in the book Tommy.

Cheers!
Bomber Macgregor

Hello William et al,

To briefly answer your question, there are two aspects of music that are involved in each of the five Guards Regiments.

Each regiment have their own band, which is a complete orchestra, which Americans would compare to the Marine Corps Band. The Guardsmen who served with the band were given the rank of Musician.

In addition each regiment have a Corps of Drums (Except the Scots and Irish Guards who instead have a Corps of Pipes and Drums). The Corps of Drums consists of fifes, drums and bugles. From what I understand, each fifer carried a bugle, and depending on the situation would alternate between the two instruments as necessary. The Guardsmen who served with the Corps were given the rank of Drummer (whether they played fife, bugle or drum).

The Drummers certainly saw combat. If you look to the following article from our website, you will see that some such as Drummer Roe were called to give the ultimate sacrifice.

http://www.footguards.org/in_rem_roe.htm

I have always been of the understanding that the Drummers originally served as stretcher bearers on the front lines aiding and assisting the RAMC men in their work.

I hope this is helpful. From the reenacting standpoint, it is certainly an impression that can be done. With our morning parades, music is certainly called for, and they can then fall in as either a soldier or a stretcher bearer while in the trenches.

Regards,

Jim

Does anyone play anything out there? Myself I play a lot of different things, what would I say would I be the more experienced on, probably tuba, but play trombone, and flute. I also play bagpipes too and actually played with scottish military bands at one time or more....long story.

For some reason a highschool in the usa did something with a highschool band and the coldstream guards band(?) in the uk within the last 5 years. Myself I'm not a very good arranger or conductor but wouldn't mind trying to figure some of these things out, especially on a march situation along with proper tunes to go with the ocassions....The issue would be how would there even be an opportunity to do this without proper numbers if its a march situation. Now a night concert would be possible with a small ensemble....that leads to finding proper material and keeping things as true as possible. Anyone do this in the 1945 to modern aspect also?

Details I know are that tubas are besson on the march from all the years and concert horns, some BBb most though are Eb...only problem is period horns in this country are almost impossible to find. Drums, that's another issue, and tunics are different then they are now, having decoration on the apron that I've not seen in the usa. The rest is almost close standard I would say instrument wise except Db piccolos which a regular piccolo player can transpose.

The Drums and Fifes, you can still get the BBb flutes in the UK readily available, and they are transposition instruments like bagpipes. Some one has sent me some written music for flute bands...British and or Scottish drumming isn't american is all I can say....

Buglers, potters of Aldershot non tunable Bb horns with British Shank were used, and you have to have good chops to play them. I want to say all drummers had bugles also.....at least what I can tell from the more modern pictures.


Anyhow, who out there plays anything and might be interested?

Cheers,

Well I am a major of voice at st vincent college and will be going for a masters degree in operatic performance at Duquesne University in the fall and i have a pretty good knowledge of music and things of that nature. I think it would be fun to conduct some stuff. Also I am training on the fife right now so I may be able to do that. I think that it would be cool to just to a composite band to start off with by taking ppl from all different regiments and have them play when we march. Drummers would be really nice to go with the bagpipers of the Canadian Black Watch. I would like to help in any way I can!!

Cheers!
Bomber Macgregor

Hey William,
We have a few musical talents within our ranks. The first of which that comes to mind is Alex Roe who is lead trombone in his university marching band and also played in a drum corps.

I am sure you all could work something out. There is certainly opportunity to play during the morning march up to the front, possibly incorporate music in the memorial ceremony and perhaps other chances.

As for the uniform, you have no worries. All of the Guards including the music traded their ceremonial reds and tweeds in at the beginning of the war for Service Dress Khaki. Therefore, any of the reproduction tunics will work fine for a war time Drummer impression.

Cheers!

Jim

Ok, guess the question would be as to where to start with this...I'm in KY , where are you all at?

Also finding some of the basic tunes that are used hasn't been easy at least for myself....anyone know of places where to find british sheet music for this sort of situation?

Cheers

I live in Pittsburg Pennsylvania.

Hey William,
We have guys from all over - MI, VA, SC, MA, MD, PA, IL, OH. Everyone is all spread out. We have a guy (not on the forum) from Cincinnati area. Either way most of us all meet up in Newville, PA for the GWA WWI event twice a year.

As for sheet music, I will keep my ears open. What instrument do you want music for? Also, I am sure there is a lot of standard stuff that you could get like God Save the King, the marches for each of the regiments - British Grenadiers, Figaro, Scipio, etc. I'll see what I can find for you.

Sorry I keep missing you on AIM. It is really hit or miss - keep trying and our paths will cross eventually.

Jim

Hey I'm glad someone brought this up! Great topic, I would love to get something like this started. If I can get a bugle to practice on for a bit before an event I'm sure I could adjust my chops to rock out on it. I have also had some limited but decent conducting experience. Although I'm not sure exactly what the customs were for a conductor or drum major. I don’t have any percussion experience so we would need someone there, otherwise it looks like all bases are covered! From what I have seen of the marching technique it is interesting but certainly accomplishable. Music wise I think Jim has it right, standard pieces like God Save the King and the Regiment marches should be simple enough to find and arrange for a small ensemble. Jim, for music look for percussion, fife and bugle arrangements for any of the pieces mentioned. I will do some digging around my neck of the woods to see what I can find as well. As far as actually getting together and practicing goes it looks like the only real chance we are going to get is around event time. Maybe we can schedule to get there early to get some practice time in. Let me know what you guys think!

Question for everyone then. What do people play and how many people total would there be? I would think in order to have a decent ensemble here's some ideas:

2-3 trumpet or cornet players
3 clarinet players
2 trombone or more players depending on parts (tenor at least but 1 bass would be nice to have the proper sound if you ask me)
2 tuba players (be nice )
euphonium player
1-3 sax players (alto and or tenors)
flute / piccolo player, might have to learn to transpose Db parts
be nice to have other lower reed players like a bassoon or so but that's probably optional
at least 1 snare drum and bass drummer
other percussion would be nice but probably optional

Myself, can play tuba parts, learn trombone parts if necessary, and or play flute parts if had instrument and or some time again (speaking of which, Bb flute in mind there???)

So who can play what?

We do have a masterful Trombone player in our midst. I used to play the Sax but I haven't touched it in 10 years, though I still have it (an alto). Speaking of that, how much of a difference would you say there is between a modern sax and one from the WWI era?

Jim

Well from what I understand about wood winds, they use to use a different fingering system for clarinets (albertson? and boehm) of that time ....and also flutes, which are rather rare to find. Saxophones though, I would say that there's not as many higher register keys on the horn and also any sort of balanced action issues like in a very nice selmer mark VI type horn. I would also think that the keys are more simplified. I actually have an old C melody sax that has early 1900's patents on it. Other saxes I've played, its not as comfortable to play but more or less works...and of course the C melody is not the transposition kinda like what everyone uses today. That could be one issue that would be different from now and then, they may have used them, finding parts for them is very hard though, unless they play a flute part. The other issue would be Piccolo parts were also written for Db instruments, and the modern ones are in C of course.

Brass issues:
When it comes to tubas, the system they use today in the UK which is called compensating system, it was invented in the 1800's, so that's really not changed that much. The only thing that's different from current bessons is the top piece of brass around the valves. Older horns have smaller amounts of clearance around the valves on the BBb models. I don't think that this applies to the Eb instruments. If you really want to be correct on brass, everything would be British Shank btw on mouthpieces.
Trombone situation, most people played straight tenors at that time, the Bass trombone though wasn't setup with a valve, it had a really long slide extender....those things are rare to find...seen one only once. There are pictures of the bands people playing though though...

Now for that other possible issue that would be something to think about is the marking of the instrument of what pitch the instrument is in. Some saxophones had markings for low pitch and something else. I would also say that this could be true with clarinets and other brass. During that time period, they didn't standardize yet on 440hz for A, and they were possibly still playing 415hz. I would suggest staying at 440 for the sake of simplicity.

One last issue, if your playing any saxophone, if you want to keep it correct during the period, you would have to make sure the pads were leather with metal tone resonators and possibly a ceramic or hard rubber mouthpiece(?) Clarinets being wood of course and Brass instruments with valves would all have to have metal guides on the valves, no delrin. All wood wind instruments would have to have cork on the keywork for proper stops instead of any synthetic materials. Course this is if you wanted to go that far....

Cheers